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Aegis Scientiafide
Molon Labe.
League of Infamy
34
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Posted - 2013.05.21 19:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Eltra Ardell wrote:I find it amusing that you are behaving exactly like the FPSers I describe in my news article. http://themittani.com/news/dust-514-eve-culture-shock-and-grief-universityQuote:It's this kind of metagaming that FPS games lack. When someone sneaks into a clan and spies or wreaks havoc, they tend to be promptly booted, shamed, called all sorts of names, and potentially disqualified from whatever event they were involved in. Basically, it's a big no-no. In EVE, you get the opposite reaction. It's a fact of life and tends to provide capsuleers with entertainment. Whatever the carebears in space might claim, such behavior is not only expected, it's sanctioned by CCP. You are experiencing culture shock. Welcome to New Eden.
Maybe Eve culture is crap, did you ever think about that? The idea that emotionally manipulating people is fun and good entertainment is disgusting. There are tons of games with deep metagames that don't involve this type of behavior.
The most disturbing aspect of this game though involves the playerbase's attitude towards spying. Any person who's spent an exorbitant amount of time gaining people's trust and befriending them so they can betray them in an online game (for digital gains) needs to examine themselves. Anyone who condones this behavior should do the same. Quite frankly, these people should get a life; not to mention, such anti-social behavior borders on sociopathy.
Maybe you eve players who condone this behavior are unaware of this, but it's this type of behavior and and attitude that have branded eve players as being the scum of the gaming world. It's because of this that other gamers look down on you (well, that and the fact that you spend so much time playing a ridiculously boring game). |
Aegis Scientiafide
Molon Labe.
League of Infamy
39
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 19:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Oh Charizard, where to begin. I suppose that I should start by stating that I expected your kind of response. I mean, I post on a forum for a game set in the eve universe, calling eve culture crappy, well of course I'm going to get responses like yours. In fact, I'm sure I'll get more people jumping aboard to defend their game. So it does not shock me at all that you're attempting to belittle me and are insulting my intelligence. I wrote what I wrote because I felt it was worth mentioning. I know you feel differently, but hey people aren't going to all have the same point of view as yours. I'm sure you'd rather see yet another post praising how awesome spying is.
I guess I should also start off by how much of a BSerr you are. Hilariously so. First off, I looked it up, and DSM V was literally released days ago (May 18). Also check this out:
http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Personality%20Disorders/DSM-IV%20and%20DSM-5%20Criteria%20for%20the%20Personality%20Disorders%205-1-12.pdf
What's that on page 2? Oh I'm sorry, are those DSM V criteria for diagnosing ASPD? My god are you looking foolish right now. See, I make it a habit not to make assertions about things I know nothing about. Looks like you've yet to learn that lesson.
If you did a quick google search for the DSM V, you'd also see that it's highly controversial, with the NIMH openly stating that mental health practitioners avoid using it.
Update your knowledge pool accordingly. Also, when are people like you ever going to learn not to BS on the internet?
But I digress, it's a stupid argument anyway because if you actually read my comment, I did not actually diagnose anyone with sociopathy. I merely said it borders on sociopathy. In fact I'd say I'd definitely be wasting my time arguing with a bunch of sociopaths about the severe lack of morality and empathy they're exhibiting.
But just to clarify, I'd never diagnose anyone with anything, as I'm not a professional in the field. Similarly, I'd never use the DSM because it's a tool meant for professionals to use, not for people like you and I.
Here's an eve-related video that encapsulates what I'm talking at it's worst:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-2acttwPNc
There are tons of examples like this. Notice how everyone in the video thought this was totally acceptable and even laughed along with him. Are you sure afk hisec miners are the worst of eve?
I'd like to point out that there's a big difference between, say, being moved or excited by a film and being manipulated by some **** who's pretending to be your buddy for months to years on end just to get information/digital items, or being harassed endlessly by some ******* (like in the video I showed above).
As for your argument for spying, it basically boiled down to an entire paragraph of, "It's completely unique and different!" and "It feels like you can do anything and the GMs will let you!" As a fellow gamer, I can sympathize with the fact that a lot of games churned out nowadays tend to be the same old crap with the same old tired mechanics. This is a very poor defense against my assertion that a) eve culture is ******, and b) the behaviors that are common on eve are terrible. Also, just because something's unique does not mean it is good.
Also, this idea that people bash spying only because they're afraid of it or hate it is absurd. I can't speak for other people, but personally, I don't look at "spies" with fear or hatred. I look upon them with disgust and maybe even contempt (for the more extreme cases of "espionage").
As for my get a life comment, it was very appropriate. As much as you'd like to believe, it's not a catchphrase I throw around all the time due to me projecting my so-called insecurities (I'm guessing you're using your self-proclaimed psychiatric expertise for this diagnosis huh?) Anyone who feels spending years (in the most ridiculous accounts of espionage and infiltration) infiltrating a corp and befriending people just so they can later betray them in an online game does in fact need to get a life. It is not an accomplishment, as much as a lot of people around here would like to believe.
As for getting worked up about it, I guess I get worked up when I see something I find to be terrible and am disgusted by. Both my ideas that digital items are not all that important (although I do realize people place value on digital items, that's not what I'm criticizing) and the idea that I'm disgusted by people who will do terrible things for digital items are not contradictory.
Anyway, guess not everyone can be respectful of different opinions like DS 10. Kudos to him for being a gentleman and not throwing a tantrum when someone insulted his game. |
Aegis Scientiafide
Molon Labe.
League of Infamy
39
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 01:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Laheon wrote:@Aegis...
You will also find that The Mittani lost a lot of respect within the EVE community because of that incident, and had to step down from the CSM. Generalising a whole community like that is simply ridiculous, it's like saying all Americans are fat, all Chinese are good at maths, and all the English are hooligans. In any community, you'll get a range of people. Stereotyping for any other purpose than humor simply isn't acceptable.
Frankly, no, it's not emotional manipulation. It's nothing personal either. An alliance wants to conquer the land that you currently own, but you're too strong for them. So the alliance sends in a spy to dissolve the alliance, and after a few months, manages. That's not on a personal level whatsoever. He's doing a job for material gain, not to hurt someone.
As often stated in online games, it's not really material wealth. In the end, it's just a few kilobytes of data on a server somewhere. You effectively haven't lost anything but time, time which you were very happy to invest in the game. Any emotions that may have been hurt on the way simply aren't intentional, and if the person had actually been sensible, they would know not to trust someone on an online game who has the ability to ruin their whole experience.
First off I wanna say I appreciate the civility. I know it may not seem like that after my response to charizard but civility is something I do genuinely appreciate.
Anyway, I agree that it's unfair to label the entire eve community as being on par with that prick. That was not my intention in putting up that video. That was simply me showcasing the most disgusting product of "eve culture", taken at a high extreme (it seems charizard will tell you otherwise, afk miners are much worse). Although i will say that for me the most disturbing aspect of that video was not what he said or did, but the fact that pretty much everyone present laughed with him and was accepting of his actions. That, to me, is the main problem.
And that's the thing, I think it's simply way too easy to spend a lot of time in that game with a lot of people who think alike, and not realize just how ****** everyone is acting and how messed up it is.
And just to clarify, I'm not a moralist prude or anything. I'm not trying to act holier than though, I'm imperfect just like everyone else (We've all had our moments). In all honesty I'm fine with a lot of things, and I'm actually not particularly judgmental. My attitude is people can do w/e they want as long as they're not causing any harm; however, in the case of "eve's culture" I'm not entirely sure that's true. Hence why I proclaimed eve's culture is ******.
The behavior in eve does not shock me nearly as much as the general acceptance of it (or respect and admiration it generates).
I think I should clarify a few things about myself just so you can understand where I'm coming from. First, I typically hate most MMOs due to the mindless grind that usually accompanies them. When I play a game I enjoy a challenge. For that reason, most of the games I have played I tend to gravitate towards PvP (In fact most of the games I play usually involve a lot of strategy and thought). I'm also not one of those players who clings to a ridiculous standard of honor over what's fair or not fair, my attitude is if it's in the game you should expect to see it and learn to adapt.
Furthermore, there's nothing wrong with backstabbing, sabotage, etc in games. The main problem I have with eve is the means with which this is all accomplished. Generally, in most games there's no personal connection involved whatsoever, and it's usually accomplished in a short period of time (usually within a few hours at most). In Eve it's different, the act usually involves gaining several people's trust, pretending to be their pal after months on end (even as long as a year if necessary). And the funny thing is, in a game like EVE you need to place your trust on people to effectively run a coorporation (the same can be said of any organization, including those in games). So naturally, the ones you place in positions of power are those that you have felt have earned your trust, probably those you consider to be your best online pals. Say what you will, but that type of emotional manipulation sounds pretty ****** up.
Anyway, I just highlighted spying because it's one of the more particularly messed up aspects of the game that's commonplace, but there are tons of things that go on in that game that are pretty ****** (Which I'm convinced are highlighted as "features" by CCP as a way to simply avoid having to deal with it). It's a pretty toxic community.
The thing is, though, I've enough experience in high-level MMO gameplay to know that this behavior is commonplace. What I find surprising is the general attitude towards all of this. While in pretty much every other game people who do **** like this are looked down on, Eve's the only game I know of that actually celebrates this. |
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